By any other name
When I was a child in Ireland, lo these many years ago, grown-ups were called by their last names: Mister this and Missus that; and Miss the other, in the rare instance of an unmarried woman (such as my recorder teacher and her sister, the infamous Misses K__ of D__ [I'm going for a Jane Austen approach here. Is it working?]). My teachers and my friends' parents all went by this rule. My parents' friends were a bit more of a conundrum: my parents would refer to their friends by first and last names, in almost all instances - well, when everyone you know is called either John or Catherine, I suppose you have to clarify; personally I favour a return to descriptive names like Big John and John the Shoe and John from Wicklow, but some people seem to like given monikers.
Anyway. I grew up, left my days of Mrs Quinn and Miss McDonagh and Mr Dunne behind, and started work, and was always instructed to call my bosses by their first names. I worked for Liam, and Teresa, and Helen, and TG and Kate. Generation gaps were smoothed away as I, first a teenager waiting tables and later a graduate in my early twenties (and not waiting tables, thank you), blithely addressed my elders and betters as if they were my best friends. At least, I'm sure that's what my mother would say. She's not a fan of all this pally-ness. She likes to be addressed as Mrs. Lastname. She will view you with some suspicion if, on first meeting, you try to call her by her first name.
And now I am here. You can tell me, if you like, whether this is a function of the country I'm in, or the part of the country I'm in - Maryland is technically the South, if barely - or the generation I'm in, but many children here address adults as Miss/Mr Firstname. At first it sounded peculiar to me, and while I'm getting quite used to being referred to as Miss Maud on occasion (as much as I'm used to being addressed by four-year-olds as "Monkey's Mom"), the male version - Mister Steve, or whatever, still sounds odd and a little forced to my ears.
And I am bad. I know I should adhere to the When In Rome rule, but not being a dyed-in-the-wool Southerner, or anything remotely like it, I don't insist that my children preface every other adult's name with a title. I sort of play it by ear - if a friend has their child call me Miss Maud, I try to reciprocate with my children. If a friend hails from Alabama, say, f'rinstance, I can be pretty sure this will be the polite thing to do. But with others I'm more lax and let the kids go with just first names. I certainly bear no ill will towards little 'uns who call me whatever they want to call me, so long as it's not Hey Stinkyface.
What do you think? Will civilization crumble if children don't address their elders with an honorific? Is this a regionalism, or the norm in all of the US? Do your children call everyone by their first name, last name, or do they have courtesy aunts and uncles up the wazoo? (And how painful is that, anyway?) Should I beat some manners into my kids quick smart before they kick me out of the country? Or are good manners just an outdated concept? (Don't worry, I know the answer to the last one. I'm just not sure how vital this particular aspect is.) Set me straight, why don't you?
posted by Maud @ 9:01 PM
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10 Comments:
I live in Texas, where this is the norm and how my husband was raised. I grew up in the NE though, and also live in progressive Austin. I think it's totally weird for kids to say Mrs. Lastname or Ms. Firstname, and will not be encouraging our son to do so. I think that might dash some of my husband's dreams (!) but I think kids can be respectful without highlighting a status difference with the honorific.
I grew up in the American Midwest, which isn't as famously polite as the South, but which does tend to be traditional and conservative. My parents taught us that we should always call an adult Mr./Mrs. LastName to start with, and if they told us to call them by their first name or Ms. FirstName or Dr. Whatever, then that's what we should call them because people get to choose how they want to be addressed.
We've mostly taken the tack, with our daughter, of having her call adults Mr./Ms. FirstName...but that's mainly because we've lived for most of her life in Maryland or Virginia, and that's what people in those places do. There are a select few close friends whom she addresses as Auntie or Uncle, and a few more she just calls by their first names. But I'll teach her the same thing as my parents: people get to choose what they want to be called. (Personally, I don't mind when kids call me by my first name only, but if their parents insist on using Mrs. G or Miss Bethany I don't care.)
I tend to have different ideas for my friend's children as opposed to the random neighbor's kids, for example. I want the neighbor kids to call me Mrs. Lastname, but I don't feel strongly about what my friends' kids call me. I do, however, want MY children to address my friends as Ms. Firstname, although the Mr. Firstname does sound ridiculous. I'm lax about enforcing it, particularly with my closer friends. But it's not necessarily a manners/politeness issue. Rather, it's that there is SO LITTLE that I can take from my own southern upbringing and can reasonnably instill in my children. I tried teaching them to say "ma'am and sir" but it sounded ridiculous.
Is it unusual that I feel the same way? I have to say I am uncomortable with the whole Miss/Mr + firstname so if I feel this way why enforce it with my kid. In practice, the Miss/Mr. rule is for preschool/after school teachers and these are people we want to distinguish with some respect and formality.
For friends it's just first name but if we don't know the person very well (school mate's Mom for example) I might say the Miss/Mr but I admit I don't like being called Miss Therese at all.
Hmmm. Mind enlightening me as to what H should say here in the UK? I have never given it much thought, but just refer to people by their first names and he tends either not to address them or to call them "Cai's Dad", for example, although sometime he just calls them "Dad", which is kind of odd.
Growing up in Texas, I remember calling black/hispanic people Miss Firstname - usually cafeteria ladies and other menial positions and white people Miss Lastname, usually teachers. Not sure if the distinction was a race thing or a status thing that just went along with race, unfortunately. Geez. Haven't thought about that in years! Not sure if Texas rules apply to Maryland, though. I am pretty sure no Texan would consider Maryland the South!
I never considered Texas the South, though. It's a whole nother country.
I think it's safest to default to Mrs Lastname for Henry's friends' parents, unless they're also friends of yours. Or ask them what they'd like.
At our wedding, the best man referred to my mother-in-law as Mrs Lastname during the entire speech, even though he's known her forever and she'd be fine with him calling her by her first name. He said he couldn't possibly break the habit of a lifetime.
I think this is not so much a country or regional thing as a generational thing. I grew up in several regions of the US and spent time in Europe. We ALWAYS referred to people as Mr./Mrs./Dr. Lastname. Now one issue is that the last name of the child and the mother so often do not match; using the known first name is easier than guessing at the last name. I, however, disagree with above, that there's anything more weird about Mr. David than Ms. Diana. What becomes weird to me is when someone is a friend and deserving of the title Dr. because Dr. Fred or Dr. Jane sounds a little odd, but using just Mr. or Ms. is wrong.
Good point about not being able to count on knowing the last name these days.
But I do think that any PhD or MD who gets in a snit because a four-year-old didn't address them as Dr has it coming to them.
I think the standard practice among adults is not to refer to a PhD holder as "Dr" unless you're in an academic setting.
As an undergrad, I once called out along the hall "Dr BeardyProf", and he came to me in a snit, telling me to call him "Professor BeardyProf". I later learned that in fact, he didn't have a PhD, so perhaps I hit a nerve.
DP, I think (someone back me up, please) that while in Ireland/UK we only call MDs "Doctor" outside as well as inside work, in the US it's correct to address any old PhD holder as Doctor at all times.
Or maybe he didn't like your reference to his facial hair.
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